ssRepository/Software Center

[LastOS]

ssRepository v1.0

ssRepo Tool Folders:

Local:
C:\Windows\LastOS\sources.list
C:\Windows\LastOS\Cache\NameOfssRepo.list
C:\Windows\LastOS\Temp\

x:\ssRepo\NameOfssRepo.list
x:\ssRepo\Pool\NameOfApp(No Spaces)\NameOfApp.apz
x:\ssRepo\Pool\NameOfApp(No Spaces)\NameOfGame.pgz
x:\ssRepo\Pool\NameOfApp(No Spaces)\ssApp.jpg
x:\ssRepo\Pool\NameOfApp(No Spaces)\ppGame.jpg
x:\ssRepo\Pool\NameOfApp(No Spaces)\ssApp.png
x:\ssRepo\Pool\NameOfApp(No Spaces)\ppGame.png


Web:
http://www.lastos.net/ssrepo/sources.list
http://www.lastos.net/ssrepo/NameOfssRepo.list
http://www.lastos.net/ssrepo/pool/
http://www.lastos.net/ssrepo/pool/NameOfApp(No Spaces)


File Content:
sources.list:
http://www.lastos.net/ssrepo/NameOfssRepo.list

NameOfssRepo.list:
"NameOfApp(No Spaces)", "Title", [Category="Catalog|s|s|s"], [Description="Short Description"], [Version="Version"], [Arch="Arch"], [URL="URL"]
"NameOfGame(No Spaces)", "Title", [Category="Catalog|s|s|s"], [Description="Short Description"], [Version="Version"], [Arch="Arch"], [URL="URL"]

------------------

x:\ssRepo\ssRepo.exe

* Make a new ssRepo
* Update and existing Pool (NameOfssRepo.list)

To use, simply fill the pool folder with your .apz .pgz and use this to build the NameOfssRepo.list,
Upload the NameOfssRepo.list and the \pool folder to the internet (via ftp)

We can add the support of ssRepo's to ssWPI, LastOS Project Builder or any other side projects we wish to make.

This will essentially work as a software center for Windows, with the ability to use the cached items in ssWPI or other offline installers.

We will be able to have an individual ssRepo per LastOS member, Other people are able to make their own ssRepo and if shared publicly we can also use them (optional).

This will automate the process and make it very easy to select the apps you want to get (multiple), we can also add uninstall support by keeping a history of installed apps.

You will no longer have to waste time posting your updated or new apps on a forum.

Please share your thoughts on this, it will be a moderate project and require the updating of many of the LastOS tools to support it, as well as the construction of the Software Center program.

Downloading a new Sources.list will update your existing one, not replace it.

.apz is a renamed .7z, .rar or .zip that stores the information needed for a Silent application installation.
.pgz is the same but for games.


Naming Conventions of ssApps/ppApps/ppGames:

TitleOfApp_x86/x64/all_Version_ssType_ssRevision.apz/.pgz

The folder on the FTP will be generated from the above information (from the file names) - not the Title in the .app .ppg file as that is harder to grab and would slow things down.

[-c0dez3ro-]

this will take me a while to understand it fully lol , once it gets started ill get a better understandin lol,

[crabdance]

Way to go Ron. Nice idea. I think that once everyone sorta gets their head wrapped around this they will be all for it.

You're a thinker, bud

[The Freezer]

Two, well, three suggestions...

1. Remember Catalog can now support more than one entry. Perhaps separate them with the "|" marker.

2. For the sake of simplicity -- and to have mercy on anyone making, or even planning on making builders of any sort -- I suggest using ppApp.jpg, ppApp.png, and ppApp.ico, etc. for naming conventions and instead use NameOfApp for a sub-folder in place of "ScreenShot", "Fader", "Icon" because the extension already states its function

(Though I suppose the file could be renamed as it is pulled out of the pool, of course ... )

3. Finally, can we get a cross-reference or a re-introduction to who all's using new alias or handles... please !?!

[crabdance]

Sorry for the confusion Freezer. I changed mine before the site went down...

Algernon = crabdance

-Edit- By RON

LastOS = LastOS
Ghost = Emplosion69
C0d3 = Moon
GodJr = Trouba

Thats the main ones you'll need to worry about.

[LastOS]

If that's the options it would be better to have a folder in the pool for each app - with the png jpg ico and apz pgz in there with them.

I like that Idea Actually - Will go edit the concept.

I'll add the .app and .ppg in the folder too, may come in very handy to have access to them without having to extract the 7z/rar to get them out. Making the apz pgz a true data container for all the apps to live in, with the normal files in there too for backwards compatibility and compression.

If I can Automate the ftp uploading of the generated pool folder it will be very handy.

-------------

Naming Conventions of ssApps/ppApps/ppGames

TitleOfApp_x86/x64/all_Version_ssType_ssRevision.apz/.pgz

The folder on the FTP will be generated from the above information (from the file names) - not the Title in the .app .ppg file as that is harder to grab and would slow things down.

eg.

firefox_all_3.0.6_ssapp_1.apz

By keeping them all lowercase and keeping the information in the files name - we essentially drop the need to even extract the information from the .apz or .pgz to list it in the software center EXCEPT to gain the category/catalog - This will enable us to rapidly generate a list and sort in the background as your using the app - then caching the acquired information in the Software Center.

To combat the above issue I propose we seperate the sorting of apps/games ENTIRELY from the .app file for the purposes of ssWPI and Software Center use, example is:

During build/update of the ssRepo we also generate a cache, this cache can be downloaded by the Software Center and used to skip items detected in the caching - Speeding up load times dramatically

[LastOS]

Project will now be referred to as ssSC - Silent Setup Software Center

because LastOSssSC just looks too weird!

[The Freezer]

I'd like to point out that if using zip or non-solid RAR/7zip archives that individual files inside the archive can be accessed -- even updated -- and/or extracted from those archives without extracting all preceding files (or in some worse case scenarios without extracting the entire archive first). I've even modified ssBuilder to create only non-solid 7z archives now. It makes a huge difference. For example, I've been able to view screenshots or inspect the .app file almost as instantaneous as if it were outside the archive. This will prove to be very useful, so I propose using strictly non-solid archives as an archive standard for ss-tech.

I agree it's a good idea to leave out spaces in naming conventions (since many registry or command-driven modifications still see a space as a parameter delimiter)... But periods "." can be used quite effectively as a substitute without harm whatsoever to the SetupS-tech. In fact, I've been using such as far back as v7

But I also think that we can (and should) make the archive naming case-insensitive. Yes, I know this somewhat complicates sorting and searching on the database side of things, but even DOS doesn't care whether you are using upper or lower case. And like using periods "." in place of spaces, it will look much nicer if we allow mixed case.

As for architecture-type, the default could be "All" and just drop it from the archive-name. Many titles do not have separate architecture-versions. I'd say (for now) that only use x86 or x64 if a particular title DOES offer separate architecture versions. Yes, I know technically x86 will work on all x64 machines -- just not quite as efficiently as an x64 compiled one -- but it is still useful for one to know for which machine a title has been optimally compiled.

My suggested proposal:

Title.Of.App_Version[_x86|x64]_ssType_ssRevision.apz|pgz

(Note, for those unfamiliar with syntax convensions, "[]" means "optional"; "|" means "or")

Finally, what is ssRevision for again? ... I might've been asleep during that lecture

[LastOS]

ssRevision was just invented - as building apps can be problematic on some occasions - I propose we support the option build number at the end of the naming to allow for the same version app to be released with fixes/updates to the apz without needing to break the naming conventions. 0 is dropped by default, but a re-release app will count from 1.

Agreed on the titles arch changes you propose Thanks for clarification on the use of | always thought it was just a separator - but it makes sense now.

I left case out for benefit of the web storage, but if the http://www.lastos.net/ssrepo/NameOfssRepo.list file has the correct case stored, I guess using Cases wont be a problem. Although we will need to make sure to name the files the correct cases for ssApp.app ssApp.jpg etc etc - else we cannot download them from the pool, the ssRepo.exe will take care of all this stuff, but if someone manually changes a file in the pool they will have to be aware of this requirement.

I don't plan on using . for all spacing as it will really screw up adding version to the title of each app, but your method works

Nero.Burning.Rom.9.0.6.ssApp.3.apz = Fa!l
Nero.Burning.Rom_9.0.6_ssApp_3.apz works just fine.

I did plan on using less logic in the detection but I guess I can drop All for to cosmetic benefits and add detection of if the 3rd item is arch or ssType.

Can you share your latest beta code when you plan on taking an extended break from working on it - I will probably take on your new code to make it editable by myself again, as well as rewriting all my tools using the base modular approach you've started using, I may be required to fork off from your codebase to get it know to myself again, so best if your not trying to work on it at the same time. Ah hell just upload what you got now, I'll make a start on it already. this plan is coming along, and loving the feedback, catch the potential problems before the design is complete and we can stop a heap of missing features and bugs before we even start coding

I take it your very interested in the ssRepo idea freeze - cause you got a lot to say on the matter, making it sound like you want it to do the jobs you need it for, I hope others do the same while we're still planning things!

[The Freezer]

[...] 0 is dropped by default, but a re-release app will count from 1.

Here's another idea, how about we use letters for revisions, maybe even adding something like "_revA" for example? .. anyway, was just a brain-fart

[...]Thanks for clarification on the use of | always thought it was just a separator - but it makes sense now.[...]

Well actually you had it correct... many coders such as yourself and I will often use "|" as a data separator (in databases for example). I think it's because it's the closest looking character to the symbol used on older keyboards for the Newline-key.

It's just that it so happens syntax people also like using that character.

[...] I don't plan on using . for all spacing as it will really screw up adding version to the title of each app, but your method works

Nero.Burning.Rom.9.0.6.ssApp.3.apz = Fa!l
Nero.Burning.Rom_9.0.6_ssApp_3.apz works just fine.

Agreed. That first one looks awful. But then that's why I thought you wanted to use the "_" character to separate between title and version as in your second example above -- but, for aesthetics, I would also suggest "_v" be added for versions, like so:

"Nero.Burning.Rom_v9.0.6_ssApp_revC.apz"

[...] Can you share your latest beta code when you plan on taking an extended break from working on it - I will probably take on your new code to make it editable by myself again, as well as rewriting all my tools using the base modular approach you've started using, I may be required to fork off from your codebase to get it know to myself again, so best if your not trying to work on it at the same time. Ah hell just upload what you got now, I'll make a start on it already.

Sure, no problem if you'll excuse the mess... and be willing to share any discoveries (good or bad) that you make yourself -- as I know it's beyond you to do it any other way

[...] this plan is coming along, and loving the feedback, catch the potential problems before the design is complete and we can stop a heap of missing features and bugs before we even start coding

Best way to do things I think, is if you spec out all you require first then work on implementing that design... a bottom-up approach as it were. Make it look "nice" later

[...] I take it your very interested in the ssRepo idea freeze - cause you got a lot to say on the matter, making it sound like you want it to do the jobs you need it for, I hope others do the same while we're still planning things!

I'll admit I'm still a little sketchy on the details of the whole plan, and so I'm sure I'll have other questions of course. For instance, how is the plan on the whole freeware/open-source philosophy versus something "otherwise" shall we say?

[LastOS]

Well you can add more that one Repository to the sources list, lets just say "other" repositories will likely appear if the tech takes off.

[LastOS]

A trick we could do, is to allow the use of a external SetupS.app file that allows you to install Silent SFX apps, but with the knowledge of menu sorting and Categories. will allow you to update your apps you already have without needing to rebuild them at all, much like config.js in WPI.

This will use the same tech that FreezerBox added to the default Windows 7 included shortcuts, only with Archive names as the key to each section, instead of the shortcut name, as much as we've been fighting for people to switch to SetupS tech over SFX, it's not happening as well as I wanted it, so a external caching (even generated/updated from existing Config.js) for any non SetupS apps to allow Categories and Menu sorting without requiring a SetupS.app file.

This should allow people to make the change over very easily and quickly without needing to learn very much to do so.

We can create an online cache of the above SFX based off Soporifics collections as he has the most public releases people use and is willing to help make it work.

If some of you aren't aware My whole house (2 Adults, 4 children) have had gastro for the last 3 days, thats why nothing much has been getting done on this. I am hoping I can make some mockup graphics so we can have some discussion's about the best approach to take.

This tool will be included with LastOS OS's - not just as part of the DVD/USB - but to allow people to install to any OS.

The plan is for me to re-write SetupS in to SetupS2 Technologies, made so that a smaller mind such as mine can follow it again, FreezerBox did some great work and added the coolest features, but he has to work alone on his due to it being so complex in the logic and recursion methods he chose to include -I tried to follow it but it leaves me as blank as a Blackboard in the rain.

I'll do my best to create a tool that suits us all, these are just tossing in ideas to see what you all think, so if you want this to be a great improvement over SetupS1 Tech and have all the features you need, Post now or forever hold you piece

[LastOS]

Another area we can work on within the SetupS2 tech is to include the uninstaller with it, Also if we consider a way to allow updates to be preformed with the Software Center - much Like Linux and ipad/phone does. This may be helpful to those version chasers out there.

I was messing about with PSP x3 and just did a quick mockup of a possible layout - in my haste I forgot to add the search feature up the top. . what you think about this for a Software Center?



Please post, it's so very boring being excited about a idea and not have other people excited too. . . I don't want to waste my time on something no one wants.

[Ghost]

hmm Is this like a web interface between ssWPI?? and ssRepo??

I am lost to the connection between the PC and repository..lol web interface of some sort?? so we can download the newest apps right from say like ssWPI??

this idea sounds really good tho, don't let this one slip away.

Get well soon there RON and family.

[-c0dez3ro-]

im with ghost here im lost lol ,one day we are usein sswpi then next day we usein ssrepo ,i think im confused on the ssrepo idea

[Al.Cohol]

I think this is an excellent idea, much like the new Slax *nix repo they use, if i understand correctly. In *nix you run apt- get or something and it acesses the repo and updates\install the packages via the net. Even on live cds. I don't wan't to speak on behalf of the creator, but i think i "get it". You can always use the old way, no one can take that away from you, but there is a new way now also. (If i understand correctly) It would be much like the old LastOS www idea where there is a website where you can go into individual threads, but now it will be all sorted nicely like an FTP where there is a www link for an exact file that (if you wanted too) you could make a script to download and install them all, or just acess the repo via the www address. You could have a vanilla copy of Win7 and still have access to the benefits of sswpi by downloading a bat file from your email and running it. It could work similar with the lastos builder and to find a newer version of an app just add a +1 number (for the newer version). If i do indeed "get it" i am excited as i can be naked in a jungle and as long as i have wifi and a laptop i can download a legal OS off a legal (or whatever) server, install it, download your bat from email or browse the sssc www, and then run it and have net swwpi. Very elegant indeed, trust RON, he moved on to Linux (i thought) and he is ingenious for using some of the good *nix ideas M$ hasnt embraced. Im sure everyone will love it, but by looking at my username, maybe its just me.

[LastOS]

Explanation in day to day usage of ssRepo and LastOS Silent Setup Software Center:

To use ssRepo, copy the created ssApps/ppApps/ppGames in to the ssRepo's pool folder on your local machine, use ssRepo to build the NameOfssRepo.list, Also add the NameOfssRepo.list to the sources.lists that's stored on the server (Via ftp or if I include it in the ssRepo it will take care of this for you).

NameOfssRepo.list will contain a list of all the apps in your pool of applications that the Silent Setup Software Center can access (as well as the older SetupSApps, ppAppsInstalls, ppGamesInstalls) folders as well as any cached items you have downloaded previously with the Software Center.

If your not detected as online the software center will only display the offline installers, much like how ssWPI currently works.

The Software Center will replace ssWPI and the ssRepo will replace the need to post individual apps in threads on forums, to get the app for installation or updates for your app collection or to uninstall previously installed items, you just use the software center to take care of it all.

This technology is not new, Apple and Linux have been using it for many years successfully, as most Linux/Mac is overlayed on top of the installed OS, but Microsoft have always had installers that install fonts, dll's, runtimes, resources, user data, registry information, file associations and uninstall information - They decided to never make this technology work for Windows. What all this does is makes your windows able to be installed, updated, uninstalled or reproduced installations (presets) - the same way Linux and Mac does it.

heres a flow chart:

- App(s) Made By [Creator]
- Ran through ssRepo Update to add the new App(s) to the NameOfssRepo.list
- FTP Upload (or built in) to get the NameOfssRepo.list and the pool folder with the actual App(s) put on to a location that can be [retrieved] later
- Silent Setup Software Center [Ran by users] - Used a local sources.list file to check for the existence of http address NameOfssRepo.list
- Once the new NameOfssRepo.list has been acquired it is able to list the App(s) in the Software Center that can be [retrieved] and installed/updated if selected to do so.

I hope this helps some of you to understand the basics of this concept, I do realize that I've only posted tech details up till now, but it let me see who could follow my idea, now I have the list of people I can bounce my ideas and alpha releases off before filtering down the Beta to the rest of you guys.

[-c0dez3ro-]

so i will not need the installer (setup.exe ) on my pc the ssrepo will install it from ftp ?

[Trouba]

OK, latest post cleared it up a bit for me. I like the idea, although the technical aspects of it aren't clear to me as of yet. Other part is, for myself I don't see the benefit, as I'd be making apps anyway. But for others' convenience I could see the benefit, and for making LastOS tech easier to use and requiring less of the user to understand and do. But perhaps it will be easier/faster to use than ssWPI, in which case I may welcome it as a ssWPI replacement.

[LastOS]

It will support all current methods, all it is doing is adding the ability to download the Setup.exe from a server if it doesn't exist on your cache or existing SetupS app selections. I would prefer people keep a backup (cache) of the ones they download as it will be starting on a LastOS.net ftp so will be limited to 100gb a month usage - no where near enough - but I'll work on a better hosting of them once we know if it'll take off or not. The good thing is a ssRepo can be backed up or copied to a mirror or even a local server (if using it in a network situation) - I'll do my best to make it versatile and dynamic as one can (seeing as it's my first web compatible application).

[crabdance]

hey, bud... I've had my head down for so long with that other code, I haven't been looking around. Sounds good. I like it.... let's do it